Judy Brower is a life and leadership coach. She also just so happens to be one of my mentors. Having learned deep respect for many people who hold opposing belief systems, Judy discovered that when full respect is given, full expression becomes welcome. Her passion is to unleash the potential of effective dialogue into our culture, workplaces, and homes through what she calls, “respectfullexpression.”

In this episode, Judy explains the core of her message, the five statements that will allow you to align your belief systems and truly respect others, why we need to replace judgement with curiosity, the moment she realized she had an agenda that attached her to the church and kept her apart from other outside the church,  the difference between tolerance, acceptance, and agreement, and so much more!

Take a listen to the episode below!

Mentioned in this episode:

• Judy Brower’s Website
• Judy Brower’s Manifesto | Smitten by Us: A Manifesto for Jesus Followers Who Are Tired of Alienating the World

 

Play here (the red triangle below), on iTunes, Stitcher or TuneIn Radio (Amazon Alexa) or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Transcript

Hey, hey, it’s Andrea and welcome to the Voice of Influence podcast.

Today, I have with me one of my mentors, Judy Brower.  I’m so excited to have you here, Judy.  Judy is a life and leadership coach who is crazy about Jesus’ life and people, not the least of which are her husband of 41 years, her three children, their spouses and our 10 grandkids.  10, that’s awesome.

Judy, grew up on a farm in Nebraska, raised her kids in southern California and went back to Nebraska for 10 adult years before moving to San Francisco five and half years ago having learned deep respect for many people who uphold opposing belief systems.

Judy discovered that when full respect is given, full expression becomes welcome.  Her passion is to unleash potential of effective dialogue into our culture, workplaces, and homes through what she calls respectFULLexpression.

Andrea:  Judy, it is great to have you with us on the Voice of Influence podcast!

Judy Brower:  Thank you Andrea.  I’m so excited to be here and love the way what’s been growing inside of me is so connected to your quest to unleash people’s voice for influence in the world.  Thanks for what you do and thanks for including me in it today.

Andrea:  Oh yeah, this is great!  There’s a lot of really great stuff that we have to talk about because I kind of have a sense of your main message and what you’re trying to accomplish or share with the world.  But would you share that with the audience right now, just what’s the kind of the core of what your main message is?

Judy Brower:  I guess the core of my main message and the desire behind bringing it to the world is that we would create a tribe of individuals who are gathered around the reality that we all belong by birth to the family of humanity.  And that all of us matter equally and when it comes right down to it together we’re creating culture.  And for better or worse, everyone’s presence matters.

So this form of us all of humanity lays a foundation for every other form of us that we enjoy.  And it creates the potential for all of those different forms of us to be healthy because they’re built on this foundation of all of us being equal human beings who mattered equally right where we are.

Andrea:  OK.  So why does it matter to you that we talk about and think of ourselves as equal to other people?  I mean, that’s kind of one of those things that, you know, it’s in the declaration of independence for the United States.  We’re all created equal and there’s a talk of that a lot, but why do you think that matters to you and who you’re trying to speak to?  What is the significance of that?

Judy Brower:  The significance really can be summed up in the reality that we talk about doing, showing respectful behavior toward one another.  We respect and accept one another in theory and believe that everyone has equal rights in theory, but we don’t see one another as equals.  And until we see one another as equals, we will never be with one another as equals.

So we’re trying to do something that really isn’t in alignment with what we deep down believe and that never works.  I think that’s a big part of the chaos and why hostilities arise between people of diverse opinions and lifestyles because respectful behavior without a heart of respect falls flat.  It’s condescending.

Andrea:  What’s the difference between respectful behavior and having a heart of respect?

Judy Brower:  Well, the way that I see us is not about anything that we do, but it’s a way of seeing and being with people.  It sort of summarized in five statements that allow us to actually get our deep down belief system aligned so that our hearts will be full of genuine respect instead of just our behavior.  Would it be helpful if I share those five statements with you?

Andrea:  Yeah definitely.

Judy Brower:   OK, so the first one is I accept you as an equal human being who matters, period.  Apart from anything you do, say, believe, or think; I accept you.  We’re both part of the human family.  It’s kind of that idea that we get to pick our friends but we’re stuck with our family and first and foremost, we’re a family of humanity.

And then it goes deeper with I respect your God-given ability to think, evaluate, reason, relate, work and create and your God gives you freedom to choose how you’re going to use it.  And it allows people to be part of a family but distinct from one another in a way that demands respect.

Feel free to ask questions of how I’m expressing this…

Andrea:  Yeah.  No, definitely, I’m curious about the second one.  I think it’s so important.  I feel like all of this is so important so I just want to make sure that I completely understand and that the listener does as well or that we think through this because this idea of saying that we respect somebody but not really respecting them…say the second one again.

Judy Brower:  OK.  The second one is I respect your God-given ability to do things that other created things can’t do; animals and the rest of our amazing world.  We’re set apart as humans and that we can think and evaluate reason, relate, work, create and love.  And we do it all by choice because God gave us the dignity of the freedom to choose how we use those abilities.

Andrea:  Yeah.

Judy Brower:  So I look over at another person and go, “Wow, you have incredible potential as a human being and I don’t get to control how you use it.”  That’s respect.

Andrea:  OK, cool.  Give us number three.

Judy Brower:  OK.  Number three is you have a uniquely amazing design and so do I and I choose to admire and enjoy who you are.  I’m not going to always understand who you are because you’re different than I am.  But you have unique magnificence to bring into the world and so do I.

You know, when you just stopped to look at the fact that we all have different fingerprints that speaks volumes about how unique we are as individuals and the beauty of what we have to offer each other if we’re willing to embrace and admire rather than compete with the diversity that’s built into our human design.

Andrea:  I really like this point, but at the same time I think it could be confusing.  How does somebody truly admire somebody that they don’t understand?

Judy Brower:  It has to do with being fascinated by them, stepping back and go, that’s fascinating.  You relate with life this way and I relate with life so differently because I have a different personality.  I’m wired differently than you are, “Hmmm that’s fascinating.”  If I want to continue to grow and expand as a person and my weaknesses become strengths then I can do that by actually really embracing to the point of admiring the ways that others are different.

Andrea:  Cool!  OK, what about number four?

Judy Brower:  Number four is I’m curious about your unique journey because you’re on a unique journey and I’m on a unique journey.  And because of our journey and all that we’ve experienced in the process that we’re in with life, we see things differently, we formed different opinions, we have different beliefs that we’ve adopted.  And because you’re on a unique journey, you have beliefs and opinions and lifestyle choices that don’t make sense to me and I have ones that don’t make sense to you.  If I embrace that as a good part, a real part of what it means to be on a human journey then we can walk our journey together and I can be curious about how your opinions formed and I can allow you to see how mine formed.  And in doing so, our journeys will speak into each other’s lives.

Andrea:  Yeah, being curious about somebody else instead of just judging them immediately.

Judy Brower:  And when we listen for understanding, we get it.  If we listen to change someone’s mind, we shoot our opportunity to inspire one another in the _____.

Andrea:  Yeah.

Judy Brower:   The fifth one just dovetails with that and it’s the idea that we’re in this together and we need each other, “I need you and you need me and we need us.”

Andrea:  If somebody doesn’t feel that way, you know like, I don’t need somebody that’s different than me.  I don’t understand them.  I don’t want to be around them.  I don’t need them.  In what way are you saying that we need each other?

Judy Brower:  Well, we’re stuck together so we’re going to co-create culture.  It’s to my advantage to bring out the best in you and to allow you to bring out the best in me.  Then we create a culture that’s healthy and where people’s minds and hearts are expanded.  It also has to do with the idea of synergy and it’s all over in our world, right?  The sum is greater than the individual parts.

So in my manifesto, I speak of a symphony in which the trombones can enjoy getting together and practicing the trombone and the beautiful music that comes from a trombone.  But how much more full and rich is it when the trombones come together with all of the other instruments and bring their part to the beauty and the fullness and the richness of the whole symphony under the direction of the conductor.  But it requires this humble confidence that my part matters but not more than anyone else’s.

Andrea:  I think something that you said here just a minute ago, I’m just taking some notes, you kind of mentioned at the beginning as well that we are co-creating culture.

Judy Brower:  Uh-hmm

Andrea:  And because we are co-creating culture, like you said, it is in our best interest to bring out the best in one another.  I think that is really powerful statement.  It might even be a great way for you to summarize this because you can’t just take over culture, you know, one group taking over culture from another or that sort of thing.  It just doesn’t happen like that.

And I think that’s the kind of, that we have these culture wars and we have all these problems that are coming up with huge dichotomies between beliefs like you’re talking about and this idea that “Look, we’re creating this one culture together.”  So we, obviously, aren’t going to be able to turn it into the thing that we all exactly want.  But if we bring out in one another then maybe there’s something to that and I think that’s really powerful, Judy.

Judy Brower:  It sort of gets at the heart of we’re better together.  It’s a phrase that we throw around, but until we really believe it deep down that the person I see outside my window right now doing things that I don’t agree with matters to me and is equal to me then that way of thinking can never be developed and we can never become actually better together.

Andrea:  OK say that again, if you’re seeing somebody outside your window that you’re disagreeing with but you’re thinking of them as equal, then what?

Judy Brower:  Then it opens the door to me believing that we’re better together in spite of our differences.

Andrea:  OK!

Judy Brower:  Because we’re a family and it’s in the best interest of the family to draw the best out of each other.  And we do that by appreciating the good that’s there and looking past what we don’t like that we see on the surface to actually believe that this person matters, is full of great potential and has all kinds of things to offer me and ways to speak in my journey that will cause me to expand as a human being.

Andrea:  I love all this.  Tell me though, where does this come from?  Where did your passion for the way of us come from?  How this _____ individually?

Judy Brower:  It’s fascinating because as I described myself in the bio, I am crazy about Jesus.  I’ve been a Jesus follower for 40 years and that’s been the most significant part of who I am.  But because I never gained an understanding that I am first a human being, that first God made me as a human and set my life in motion as part of the family of humanity to co-create culture along with my fellow human beings.

I attached myself to the church and separated myself from the rest of humanity without even realizing that’s what I was doing and I had an agenda for the rest of humanity.  So then I moved to San Francisco and I become overwhelmed by the beauty and the richness and the goodness of my fellow human beings, their potential and the way they’re living it out apart from Jesus.

And I’m like “Wait a minute; I didn’t have categories for this.  I didn’t have categories for being able to learn from you and being inspired by you and the beauty of bringing all of who I am to the table and receiving all that another person brings to the table and enjoying the dynamic potential of that relationship.”

Andrea:  OK, can you help me to kind of…you said before you had an agenda that attached you to the church and apart from other humanity, what made that agenda or what was the agenda and why was that so polarizing, I guess?

Judy Brower:  Oh that’s a great question.  Thanks for asking it.  I feel like a natural agenda developed in the heart of people who love Jesus out of a pure desire to spread the life-giving relationship that we have with Him.  We long for others to know it and to experience what we have.  That’s a beautiful thing.  That’s because we’re all human beings and we want to share what we have with others that’s good.  That’s part of what it means to co-create culture.

But what happens when we segregate together with other church people who believe that is we began to see ourselves as above our fellow human beings and the answer to other people’s needs and problems.  And it creates an agenda within us to persuade others that they need to see what we see and believe what we believe so that their life can be better now and they can be prepared for the possibility of what life after this life.

This urgency grows inside of us with this longing and we quickly transition into disrespecting the freewill and the dignity that God built into humanity.  And we violate human boundaries by attempting to come into people’s lives and tell them what they need to believe and how they need to change.

So what realized when I moved to San Francisco that really drove this home for me is that, what I believe, my evangelical faith is offensive to people for the simple reason that we’ve lived it out in violation of human dignity.  Does that make sense?

Andrea:  So we’ve lived it out in the violation of human dignity.  I know what you’re saying.  So it sounds like what you’re saying is “Because we cared so much about this, we lived it out but we were doing so in a way that made us feel like we were above everybody else.”  And then that made everybody else say, “Well then you obviously don’t matter to me then.”

Judy Brower:  Yes, and you have a God-given freedom and responsibility to use your thinking, your experience, your ability to reason, and evaluate and entertain different ways of making sense out of life according to your own free will.  And when I try to put my experience and my beliefs on you that’s when I’m violating your human dignity.

Andrea:  OK, so would you mind giving us a couple of examples?  I’m thinking like what’s the difference between the way that you pursued conversations with people that were different than you before versus how you pursue them now?  What are you actually saying that’s different?  What are you actually experiencing inside that’s different?

Judy Brower:  It’s a deep down respect for the value and worth of every human being, as a human being, along with valuing and respecting their unique design and their unique process.  And being willing to enter into that process in my own process, allow our processes, if that’s the word, to come together and speak into each other’s process from a place of mutuality.

Here’s an example that maybe will help you understand this.  After five and a half years of living in San Francisco and learning how to really value and respect people, I enrolled in a secular leadership program.  And in that leadership program, my tribe helped me understand the ways that I was violating human dignity without even realizing it.  So it came down to two things.  They told me that I fail to lead and make a difference in the world when I become persuasive or apologetic.

So here’s what I came to understand that I have a tendency, and I think we all do when we meet people, to evaluate ourselves against them.  And when I put myself slightly above someone, I’ll become slightly arrogant and want to persuade them that my way of seeing or being or living is the right one, it’s better.  And when I find myself coming in below them in any way shape or form, I become slightly insecure and then I become apologetic.

So I came to the city a bit arrogant thinking that I had something to offer the city that was better than what they had to offer me.  And then I became apologetic and began to wonder if people in the city even wanted me because my beliefs are so offensive.

So I entered into this leadership program either in a given moment, being persuasive or apologetic.  And they said “Stop it.”  Both of those things are ugly when you speak with conviction and no persuasion, I want to listen.  And when you have the confidence to speak your truth without apology, I want to listen.  But when you get persuasive or apologetic, I shut down.  And I went, “Oh my gosh, I’ve spent my whole life either being persuasive or apologetic.”

And what’s grown inside of me as a result of these changes, the way that I’ve learned to apply to them are these statements that I’ve developed that I’m now learning how to see people through them.  And as I do, I’m developing humble confidence, mutual relationships where I want to hear what you have to say because I value you and I want you to hear what I have to say because I value me and I value my message.

And it’s creating this ability to be in mutual relationships with people where FULL respect and FULL expression are both part of the equation and our relationships are effective and productive or sharing and exchanging of ideas is life-giving but never condescending or defensive.

Andrea:  Yeah.  When you said that, “What I have to offer you is better than what you have to offer me,” I think that there are a lot of people, who, like you were mentioning just being condescending and that’s obviously very condescending.  And yet, when you have a strong belief system which is something that we’re all really kind of encouraged to have, maybe not everybody but certainly in religious groups or sometimes just ideologies, it’s like we’re supposed to have this really strong opinions or strong belief systems.

But then it makes it difficult to have these conversations that are not condescending.  I think it has happened to me before, certainly, where it’s threatening to my ideology.  Because you’re different you’re threatening my ideology is you’re threatening my belief system.

So if I am going to actually respect you and actually have this conversation and really truly listen to you and dialogue with you and not be condescending and all those things then I end up feeling like, “Oh crap, maybe what I believed is not that strong belief that I thought it was.  Maybe it calls that into question.”

And I think that’s one of the hardest things, especially for Christians that I’ve seen but certainly other religious groups, I’m sure, and other people with strong ideology is that if we are going to actually have a conversation with somebody who’s different and not be condescending then it sort of makes us hold them out with open hands instead of hiding them tight behind our closed fists.  But man, it’s pretty hard to have a conversation if you don’t.

I think that this is really important.  So how can we sort of become comfortable with this idea of calling our own beliefs into question, or at least holding them out so that they could possibly be influenced by somebody who’s different than us and why is that so important?

Judy Brower:  So it’s really connected or a foundation is developed when you just choose to begin to look at people through the eyes of “We’re in this together.  We’re equal human beings and both of our voices matter.”  And then we build on that by recognizing the importance of process that every human being is in a process that begins when they’re born and ends when they die, and therefore it’s messy.

Everyone is an expert on their own opinion, their own experiences, and their own belief system.  So I can’t go into someone’s life saying “I’m the expert on your life but I am the expert on my life and my belief system.”  So if everyone is an expert, and I want to continue to grow as a human being and I know that I have to or die then I invite your expert thoughts and ideas and I also bring mine and it’s messy.  But if I value you as an expert then I can be an expert without making you feel defensive.

So I can learn from your expertise while holding on to mine and my beliefs will become more and more pure and more and more evolved and more and more engaging and I will have more and more influence and so will you.  And when everyone’s best is unleashed, everyone wins.

Andrea:  “When everyone’s best is unleashed, everyone wins.”  That’s significant.

Judy Brower:  So it’s a choice.  It’s a choice to stop protecting our beliefs except in our own heart.  I don’t want to change my beliefs but I do want to allow others beliefs to speak into mine.  And what I’ve learned is that people who have opposing beliefs has so much to offer mind and that their beliefs inform mine more fully and make mine more rich.

So I haven’t changed anything about what I believed in the last five and a half years, but I’m now free to learn from others and therefore my beliefs are more rich and more life-giving to me and have more potential to offer life to others.

Andrea:  Because you understand them better or because, why it’s potential to offer more to others?

Judy Brower:  Because people are willing to listen.  It turns out that when FULL respect is given then FULL expression is welcome.  I do get to share my expertise and I want to share my expertise.  It matters so much to me.  And 40 years of walking with Jesus has given me so much beautiful understanding that I want to share with the world.  I’m discovering that the same thing is true with another’s journey and therefore this mutuality can grow and my voice increases as I allow other people’s voices to increase.  And none of us are in competition with each other because we’re all unique and all of our voices matter to everyone.

Andrea:  So let me ask you another question.  I think people probably who are Christians or people who do have a strong belief system, I think there’s still probably sitting here going, “Okay, but don’t you still have an agenda?  Don’t you still want to offer your beliefs?  Don’t you still want to offer this wonderful relationship that changed your life with others?”  How would you answer that question?

Judy Brower:  What God has done to eliminate the agenda from my heart, literally, I find myself so free five and a half years after living here of agenda that I came that agenda brought me to San Francisco.  Now that agenda is gone but not the desire.  So what I’ve learned from God is that it’s His agenda.  He’s the only one whose heart is pure enough to have an agenda and He’s above us, humans, so He can have an agenda for us.  That’s great.  I’m not going to try to stop God from having an agenda on me, my life, or anyone else’s.

But because I’m an equal human being, if I have an agenda for you, I’m violating God and the dignity that He gave you and offers you every day to choose how you live your life even if it means rejecting Him.  So I leave the agenda to God and I don’t pretend to understand how it all works.  I play my part as a human being well and I take the love, the respect, the acceptance, the admiration, the fascination, and the mutuality that He has invited me to have with my fellow humans.

And the closest thing I have to an agenda is to offer that, not with the desire to change you, but with the desire to bring all of who I am and receive all of who you are and wonder what God’s doing with it and allow God to use it in the ways that He intends to, to expand, grow, and unify all of us.

Andrea:  So it’s this opportunity to dialogue, to have this respectful dialogue that you’re talking about without trying to persuade somebody without trying to be apologetic, but yet still having the conversation.  It sounds like you’re still having the conversation but with a totally different perspective and in terms of your heart and what you’re trying to accomplish per se.

So you’re not necessarily trying to accomplish that this person believe what you believe or do what you do, but you’re trying to accomplish the respectful dialogue.  You’re trying to accomplish this opportunity to have this connection.  So maybe that sparks curiosity, maybe it does get somebody to think more about what they believe or that sort of thing, but you’re saying that it’s not the end goal per se.

Judy Brower:  No.

Andrea:  Not for you.

Judy Brower:  Exactly.  Yeah, and it is incredibly freeing to be so engaged with people as my full and authentic self.  I know that I’m going to grow because I’m going to ask and be curious and learn from them.  And whether or not they do that with me, it’s completely up to them.  But I think because we were made to travel together and be in relationship with one another, it sparks a natural desire to reciprocate that mutuality.  It feels good.

And I’ve noticed that in a city that values tolerance, that tolerance is really sort of a shallow but good starting place if it leads us to acceptance.  Tolerance says you’d be over there and do what you want to do and I’ll just put up with it even though I hate it.  And acceptance says, I accept you and your thoughts and your ideas on your journey, your belief system, or your lifestyle.  I wonder what you see about life that I’ve missed.  I wonder what it feels like to be you.

Andrea:  Which sounds different than agreeing, it’s not accepting as different than agreeing.

Judy Brower:  It’s conversation for the sake of understanding and mutual inspiration.

Andrea:  Do you feel you’re living under less pressure now that you don’t have to have this agenda and that you’re not on the particular kind of mission that you thought you were on?

Judy Brower:  Yes, so much freedom, so much joy, and what’s beautiful for me as a Jesus follower is instead of loving people for Jesus, I’m loving people with Jesus.  He loves, dignifies, and values people.  Everyone is someone who matters to Him and that allows me to walk with people in the same way and love them and respect them with Him.

And my relationship with Jesus is more alive than it’s ever been and more rich and full and my life is as well.  My relationships are beyond anything I ever could have imagined.  I’ve lost all judgment and all agenda and it’s replaced with respect, acceptance, curiosity, and fascination because we’re equal and equally valuable human being.

Andrea:  Awesome!

Judy Brower:  What’s fun though is that my voice now has to come out of respectful expression.  So I’m getting in conversations with people even other believers, especially unbelievers, and it’s messy.  And I need to respect where they are on their journey and not expect them to be where I am on my journey and allow God to have them in a process that His hands on with all of us and none of us are going to be at the end of this journey of what it means to walk with Him and our fellow humans until the end.

So my need to have an agenda to change the minds of my fellow Christians is gone also.

Andrea:  Now that’s good.  That’s pretty hard when you’ve had a big huge change like this and then to be able to still turn around and apply it to the people that were just like you.

Judy Brower:  I’ve always felt free that I was free to judge people who judged others.  And I’ve come to realized that if everyone doesn’t matter equally regardless of their opinions or their lifestyles or their attitudes then no one does, not even me.  If everyone matters then everyone matters, and everyone matters.

It still takes my breath away to say that, it literally takes my breath away, because of how powerful it actually is to live from that place right there.

Andrea:  Judy, if you could have the listener do something or remember something in specifically from this interview, like what one thing do you want to challenge them or challenge them with or leave them with?

Judy Brower:  What are the possibilities of living as if everyone you look at matters, everyone you come in contact with matters equally?  And what if you just walk out into the world and began to see people that way?  How would it change the way that you relate with them?  How would it change you?  And maybe just experiment a little bit.

Of course, I’d be most delighted if you wanted to experiment with me.  If you want to become a part of a tribe that’s seeking to live this way and sharing the stories of the way that it’s impacting us, I would love for you to go to respectfullexpression.us and send me an email that would allow me to connect with you and where you are on this journey, whether you’re a believer in Jesus or not and how can we walk this road together and make this world that we live in a better place for everyone.

If there’s ever been a time that our world needs this, it’s right now in the middle of the political chaos because ultimately it doesn’t matter if you’re a man or a woman, if you’re a person of color or white, if you’re rich or poor, if you’re a part of one religion or another, ultimately that doesn’t matter.  First and foremost, we’re equal human beings.  All of the issues in our society would actually be resolved by this one choice to see the people around us, around the entire globe as part of a family that we’re committed to as a choice.

Andrea:  Alright.  Well, thank you so much for taking time to share your passion with us today, Judy.   And we’ll definitely include your website in the show notes and people can download your manifesto there, is that right?

Judy Brower:  Yes.  I would love for you to download it and read it and think on it.  And even if you just respond with your thoughts, any ideas, thoughts that you have or stories or desires that would expand my thinking and encourage my heart would be greatly appreciated.  I can’t be in this alone.  I don’t want to be in the alone.  None of us were made to be in this alone.  So anyway, in which you would want to join me, partner with me one time over the long haul, I’m open.

Andrea:  And when you talk about joining or partnering with you, you’re referring to a conversation, you’re referring to coaching, or referring to just any kind of way that you can be a part of each other’s journey?

Judy Brower:  Yes.  My main approach to all of this has been to engage people in 6-week discussions virtually so that we can gather from wherever we are in smaller groups.  Discuss these ideas and these statements and wander together at what it would look like to implement them, allowing their messy discussions because everybody comes where they are and everybody is met where they are.  But they’re profitable and that they allow us to enlarge our ways of living and relating with people.

So my greatest desire would be to have you connect in a 6-week discussion and you can ask for that as you email me as well.

Andrea:  OK, awesome!  Well, thank you so much, Judy. I hope that more and more people will adopt the idea of respectful expression and be able to dialogue with one another and live together and co-create a culture that is beautiful like a symphony.  Thank you so much!

Judy Brower:  Me too.  I wish that you could actually see the smile on my face and feel, maybe you can feel the smile that’s in my heart as I’m actually sitting here imagining every fascinating human being that might be listening to this podcast that you provide and that might connect more deeply with the voice of influence that we all long to have and the idea of respectFULLexpression.  So thank you for giving me the opportunity to connect with you and others.

Andrea:  Awesome!  Thanks Judy!