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How do you handle the haters? I mean, haters gonna hate, right? So, we’ve just sort of got to shake it off. And, while I love that idea of being able to just shake it off, it can be a lot more complicated than that.
I was recently asked by Success Magazine, “How do you handle the haters?” My response is in the March/April 2020 edition of Success Magazine.
In this episode, Rosanne is going to interview me about that article, and we’re going to give a summary of the article and take a real deep dive into the three points that I made. We also use the topic of politics to explore how we could potentially get to a place where we are truly having a respectful dialogue that solves problems.
Take a listen to the episode below!
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
People of influence know that their voice matters, and they work to make it matter more. I’m Andrea Wenburg, and welcome to the Voice of Influence podcast.
How do you handle the haters? I mean, haters gonna hate, right? So, we just sort of gotta shake it off. I love that idea of being able to just shake it off, but it can be a lot more complicated than that.
I was recently asked by Success Magazine: “How do you handle the haters?” My response is in their March/April 2020 edition of Success Magazine.
Today, Rosanne is going to interview me about that article, and we’re going to dive a little deeper into the things that I said. In particular, we’re going to give a summary of the article and take a real deep dive on the three points that I made. I think that you’re going to find them helpful. At least, I’ve heard that they can be really helpful to folks.
And also, we actually dive into politics a little bit. Not so much specific politics but how we could potentially get to a place where we are actually having respectful dialogue that solves problems. And then Rosanne also asked me what words I have for those who might be hiding behind their computer screens and hating on others.
If you’re interested in reading the article in Success Magazine, it is or will eventually be out online. It is also in the magazine itself, which could be found wherever magazines are sold.
Here is my conversation with Rosanne:
Hi, Voice of Influence listeners! This is Rosanne Moore, I am the Voice of Influence Communications Specialist, and we’re doing things a little differently today. I’m going to get a chance to interview Andrea. She had a wonderful opportunity recently to be interviewed with Success Magazine, and we want to talk a little bit about the things that she brought up in that article, which was entitled “Handle the Haters”.
So, Andrea, because Voice of Influence is so focused on positive things, what was it like for you to address that topic?
Andrea: It was really interesting. I was kind of excited to get the question because I like being able to kind of toss things up and turn the tables a little bit, like give people a different perspective. So, the perspective that I wanted to bring to that question was instead of focusing on handling haters, focusing more on how do we handle ourselves. That maybe some of the criticism that we feel when we’re hearing other people and what they’re saying to us is actually inwardly directed; like, we are feeling that ourselves more than they are worried about hating on us.
And I think there are haters, for sure, but to me, that was my perspective and that’s what they asked for. They asked for, “What’s your story,” and I shared that my perspective on haters is that it was more about my fear of other people and what they might think or what they might reject me for or whatever than it was about actual criticism.
Rosanne Moore: That’s an interesting perspective because I’ve often noticed that online it’s very difficult to have a discussion because people seem to assume they already know what you’re saying. Unless it’s instep, lockstep with what they’re saying, they take it as criticism. And so, to hear you say that, to encourage people to look at what’s being triggered in them is an interesting perspective. Can you say more about that?
Andrea: Yeah, I mean, I think that that’s very true. It’s very hard for people to have an actual conversation like a discussion online. Especially, I think I see it on Facebook and Twitter in particular, where people… it’s sort of like the gloves are off, and we just go at each other. And a lot of times, it’s sparked from offense; like people feel offended, and so therefore they come back with an even harsher word. It would be interesting to see what would happen if we all just decided not to be offended by each other because we might actually have a conversation.
Rosanne Moore: That would be nice, right? I have tried personally to make a practice of – unless there is actual name-calling or, like, things that give clear indication of a negative tone – to try to read any kind of response, no matter what it says, in an objective tone in my head. Because I think a lot of times you’re right, we come at discussions ready to be offended or assume that the other person is angry instead of that they’re just discussing something.
Andrea: Right. I think sometimes that’s really a projection. We assume that other people are going to respond the way we would. Sometimes, it has to do with the fact that we’ve experienced this before. We’ve experienced this kind of criticism before so we’re assuming that’s what they’re doing. But sometimes, it’s because we are that critical of other people and other perspectives. And so, when we hear somebody else say that, we feel very defensive. And it’s kind of messy.
Rosanne Moore: Yeah, that’s good. I would have go back a little bit to the points that you brought out in the article in Success Magazine. Your first one was that when you’re speaking publicly, when you’re putting yourself out there to share your message, your voice of influence, that family and friends are not your audience. And that you shouldn’t target them because if they feel targeted, even though you want to influence them as well, they’re going to feel defensive and shut things down. Can you say more about that?
Andrea: Okay. So, the interesting thing about this is that Success Magazine itself their audience is people that are entrepreneurs. They’re online, they’re trying to speak, they’re trying to write, and that sort of thing. And so, it’s sort of like talking to people that are doing what I’m doing. And in that context, I think that it’s really important for people who are wanting to do the kinds of things that I’m doing to remember that their friends and family are not their audience.
Because that is true, when people feel targeted… there have been times – and I could point to probably two or three times – where I didn’t mean to target somebody, specifically, but it was close enough to the truth of some situation that actually happened that when I did talk about something or write about something that person felt like they had been targeted. And it almost ruined a relationship. Thankfully, it didn’t totally, but yeah, it was very scary.
Rosanne Moore: So, when you say target them, you’re specifically thinking, like, using examples that are too close to home, that kind of thing?
Andrea: Yeah, either examples or that the message is something that is immediately applicable to somebody that you’re very close to.
Rosanne Moore: I see.
Andrea: So, when I was writing, when I was blogging on a regular basis, I was not ahead of the game by any means. I was writing for that day, and then I would post usually that day. And so, the things that I was thinking about, stirring in my heart, whatever, were things that had been happening in that sort of immediate timeframe. And then if I would put that out there in that way, right away, it could be perceived by somebody as being about them when I didn’t necessarily mean for it to be or maybe it just looks like it, you know.
And I think there were a lot of times when I first started blogging that I really was concerned about whether or not people that I knew and loved would read what I had to say. I really wanted them to be my audience. I wanted them to support me, to care about what I had to say, to help me get this blog off the ground, that sort of thing. And until I was able to sort of surrender that, give it up, not try for that anymore, not expect that of my friends… I mean, there came a point where I said to some close friends of mine, I was like, “I would much rather you’d be my friend than my audience. I need you as my friend. I’d rather you just not read or listen to anything that I say because I want to maintain this friendship.”
And thankfully, a lot of those relationships were able to just sort of evolve, and everybody was able to sort of put that aside and not worry about, you know, being offended by what I talk about or whatever. You know, like we’re able to still have conversations around it. But that was something that felt very threatening, I think, to me and to my relationships. That was really important in that context.
Rosanne Moore: So, when you started, your intent was simply to process what was going on for you, but to others, it kind of came across as a passive-aggressive way to correct or to…
Andrea: Yeah, it could totally appear passive-aggressive.
Rosanne Moore: Yeah, that’s a good point because that could be very innocently done and cause trouble without realizing it. And I guess that goes back to the whole kind of thing we teach at Voice of Influence of knowing your audience, and realizing not just what your message is but who your listener is, and how it’s going to impact them as well.
Andrea: Absolutely. I think if I were to take this article and the things I said and apply it to our audience more broadly, I would say that is exactly it; know your audience is the first point. Is that person that you’re talking or that you’re getting criticism from, are they somebody that you really respect and you want to listen to what they have to say, and that it should impact the way that you think about things? If that’s the case, then let that be what it is and don’t call them a hater, you know. Or it could be somebody that’s maybe designed to be in your audience. Maybe they’re somebody who is on your team at work, or they are in your audience at a convention or something like this.
If you’ve touched something in them that is kind of wounded and hurt, and then they are being critical of you or hating on you online or in some sort of way even personally… The more important thing that you and I both know is that we have to stay curious in those situations and really just try to figure out what this touched in them or what was threatened in them when you said something. Because you do have sort of a responsibility to those people, you do have a responsibility to be curious about to try to understand where they’re coming from no matter what they’re saying because you want to get to the heart of it.
Rosanne Moore: And you kind of brought that out in the article when you said, “Love people more than you fear them.” That’s what you were talking about, wasn’t it?
Andrea: Yeah, definitely, that was part of it.
Rosanne Moore: Yeah, that you have to continue to be curious rather than defensive if people don’t receive what you’re saying, or they make assumptions about why you’re saying it or what you mean that don’t really fit with what you’re saying.
Andrea: Right, because they’re offended easily. And then the third category of people, I think, for knowing your audience would be the people that really might just be haters. They really are just hiding behind their computers and, you know, feeling really angry at the world. They want their voice to matter, and so they’re going to put it out there even if it does hurt somebody.
There are times when it’s okay to just let those sort of roll off and not stay curious about them. You can have compassion on people who are hateful because you know that they are hurting. There’s got to be something hurting inside of them. But that doesn’t mean you have to feel responsible for figuring out what you did wrong, and why they’re offended, and all that kind of stuff.
So, those folks, I would say, it’s okay to let those folks go and just move on. But are they somebody that’s really in your audience that you feel responsible for? Stay curious. Are they somebody that you have a lot of respect for and they’re bringing up some sort of criticism that you need to pay attention to? Pay attention to it. But if it’s somebody that’s really just kind of out on the fringes and hateful, you can’t take responsibility for everybody.
Rosanne Moore: That’s a good point, right. You also talked about, “Sometimes you have to sacrifice what you want for what you need, and that ethical influence has a cost.” What were you referring to there?
Andrea: I think that the writer of the article tweaked something that I said for the first statement there, “Sacrificing what you want for what you need.” I am trying to remember what my response actually was to that. But the main thrust of that second point is about understanding that there is a personal cost to putting yourself out there. If you’re wanting to have any kind of influence whatsoever, that means you’re not hiding under a rock on an island without anybody else around. Then you’re a person, you’re a human being, and there’s some sort of cost that you’re going to incur because of putting yourself out there.
Rosanne Moore: So, in other words, that while you may sacrifice comfort or safety or whatever… instead of maybe saying what you want for what you need, instead, you’re willing to make sacrifices to do what you believe is most important, what you’re called to do.
Andrea: Exactly. That was really more of what I was trying to get at with that point. And I didn’t have a chance to be able to say, “Oh, that wasn’t quite it,” you know, with the article.
Rosanne Moore: Right.
Andrea: And I thought, “Well, it’s not the end of the world, you know. I still got in the point about it being about coming at a personal cost.” But it really is about the mission, though. It really is about, “Okay, what am I willing to sacrifice for the mission?”
Rosanne Moore: And how do you evaluate that? What kind of things are you willing to sacrifice, and where do you draw a line and say, “No, I’m not willing to do that”?
Andrea: I think that’s a super important question. It seems to me that we need to prioritize the things that we’re willing to put on the line for our mission and what we’re not. So, for example, for me, I am willing to put myself on the line in the sense that other people are definitely going to criticize me. I’m going to have to get over that in order to continue down this path, in order to continue to have any kind of impact.
Rosanne Moore: Sure.
Andrea: So, I’m willing to sacrifice the comfort of feeling like I’m always right. I’m willing to sacrifice the comfort of feeling like everybody always agrees with me or should agree with me, knowing that that’s not going to happen. I have to sacrifice that harmony or lack of tension. There’s always going to be some kind of tension. I have to be okay with that feeling. So, there is something there that I sacrifice.
Rosanne Moore: And what kind of things are you not willing to sacrifice?
Andrea: Yeah. And I would say maybe I’d throw in with that last point just that that sometimes I’m willing to sacrifice feeling vulnerable, basically, is essentially the thing, I think, maybe. Like, I can feel vulnerable or make myself vulnerable to criticism, and that’s what I’m willing to sacrifice. What I’m not willing to sacrifice would be, I’d say, that number one, if it impacts the safety or wellbeing of my family; in particular, my children. You know, they’re vulnerable. They are vulnerable and I have to protect them.
So, you know, my husband and I have to be in conversation about what we’re willing to say about them or not say about them, or if they were to be put in the line of fire in some way, that would shift how I approach things, for sure.
Rosanne Moore: Right, right. That makes sense.
Andrea: And I’m sure that there are other things, like I wouldn’t want to sacrifice my own voice. I can sacrifice the idea of, you know, speaking to everything, “Maybe I’m not gonna speak to this thing because this other thing is more important to me.” So, I’m willing to bite my tongue here so that I can have a bigger voice there. But if I were to say I’m going to not speak the truth of what I actually believe, I’m going to actually lie… you know, being untruthful would be something I’m not willing to do.
Rosanne Moore: Right. That makes sense. Yeah, sometimes you have to keep your powder dry for the battle, where it matters most, but that’s not the same as betraying the core of who you are.
Andrea: Great way to put it.
Rosanne Moore: And it sounds like anybody in your position, anybody who’s going to have or for any of us who want to have a voice of influence, there needs to be a willingness to develop a thick skin and a tender heart at the same time.
Andrea: That’s a complicated kind of a requirement there.
Rosanne Moore: Right. Okay, so, you talked about how do you evaluate what you’re willing to sacrifice and what you’re not willing to sacrifice. Before we touched on the idea of loving people more than you fear them… when you think about what you’re sacrificing, what you’re not willing to sacrifice, when do you take in feedback from other people? When is that a sacrifice of control, then when do you draw a line and say, “No, that’s no longer helpful, and I’m not going to do that”?
Andrea: Hmm. Can you expand on what you’re saying there? What kind of example would you be talking about here?
Rosanne Moore: Well, for instance, if you’ve engaged someone and it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere, you don’t have to just be open to haters. When do you decide when there’s feedback that’s valuable for you, and when do you decide, “This is a voice I don’t need to keep listening to”?
Andrea: Hmm. That’s a really interesting and complicated question, right?
Rosanne Moore: Well, let me simplify that. What’s kind of the grid for you about when you take in feedback and when you don’t?
Andrea: Well, I think that it has something to do with whether or not the other person is really doing this because they have your best in mind. If they’re just wanting to argue with you and win you over to their side of the argument, that’s just arguing with somebody. If that person seems to really care about you, and for me, you know, my mom would always tell me, “Andrea, people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care,” and that is a quote that comes from, I don’t know, Roosevelt or somebody, but it’s definitely a historical kind of… it’s been around for a while.
But the essence of that is that if people know that you have their best interests at heart then they’re more likely to take in what you have to say. They’re more likely to feel like, “Okay, let me think about what you’re just saying right now.”
Rosanne Moore: So just because they’re criticizing, they’re not haters.
Andrea: Right, right. Oh, yeah, totally. I think that that is really important with that first point of knowing your audience, so who are you listening to then, you know. Is it somebody that really cares about you and so you’re willing to take their criticism in? But how you determine whether or not that person is somebody you want to take their criticism or not… I mean, that’s hard. It’s hard to know. I mean, if they know you, if they care about you, if they’ve demonstrated that they’re for you; I think that that’s something that each of us should think about for ourselves, when do we feel most open to criticism? When do I feel most open to hearing from somebody else, and then turn the tables and say, “Well, then that’s how I need to be treating other people when I have something to say.”
Rosanne Moore: That’s an interesting point. I know I don’t have difficulty taking negative feedback if it’s done from a standpoint of exploration rather than an assumption of negative motives. f I feel like there’s a mischaracterization of…
Andrea: Of you?
Rosanne Moore: Of me or of my motives then even if they’re right about that there’s something that I need to change, it just feels yucky. It’s a lot harder to receive, and I can usually over time parse out, “All right, this is the part that’s true that I need to look at.” But I still come away, “That’s not a person I wanna hear from in the future,” because they didn’t come at it from a standpoint of assuming that my intentions were good and that I had missed the mark, you know, or I had a blind spot about something, so that’s a good point.
Andrea: I think if we’re characterizing people as being from a different side and that other side is evil… I mean, this is what’s going on with politics. A lot of people that are in politics right now or people that are listening and feeling like they’re a part of a political party… or not even just a political party, but you know, following Trump or not following Trump, whatever, it seems like that is the line right now. We either follow Trump or you don’t follow Trump. And anybody on one side of the line characterizes the people on the other side of the line as being evil and so they totally write off every single thing that they say.
Rosanne Moore: Right.
Andrea: That is not going to get us to consensus of any kind. So, how do I listen for what is really going on in the other person? Like, bringing it down outside of politics, bring it down to the actual person themselves. What does this person in front of me, who’s maybe on the other side of the line, if you’re on one side of the line or the other – some of us, you know, are trying to look at it objectively – but how do I listen for what’s really going on inside that person? What is being threatened in them that’s causing them to believe something that I don’t believe?
Rosanne Moore: And not be able to hear…
Andrea: And not be able to hear from anybody else. Yes, not be able to hear what I have to say. It’s not even worth saying it when the other person can’t hear it. So, how do I get to the heart of that person and find out what’s really going on inside of them and speak to the heart of that person instead of talking politics around the top? Because if you start at the heart, if you get to the core of a person that’s really struggling with something, or they feel threatened in some way that they’re political party or their side of the spectrum is validating for them, you have to be able to show them that you are for them. Just because you’re against, you know, maybe their political stances, you can still be for the person.
So, if we could just do that, if we could just bring it down to that personal level and to the heart, I think that we’d have a chance of actually having conversations. But as soon as we get into inflammatory statements and assuming that, “You know, the other person is x, y, and z, and I am not and so therefore, I cannot listen to anything that they have to say. I’m gonna write off everything that they have to say,” you’ve lost the conversation. You’ve totally lost any kind of influence you could have over that person or their way that they’re thinking about things.
I would just throw in there because I brought up politics – I try not to, but right now, it’s a big deal – and I think that as long as we’re using buzzwords that we’re hearing from politicians, buzzwords like corruption… Both sides are using that word and it means something different to them. It looks like something different to them. And when you use buzzwords like that – or buzzwords of fake news or whatever – if you’re using those buzzwords, you are putting yourself in a position to be written off by one side or the other and to not actually get into a real conversation. So, to take it again, like, throw out the buzzwords. Let’s get down to what is actually going on inside people. I think then we’ve got a chance.
Rosanne Moore: So, really, we can’t even have an objective discussion about issues until both sides are really willing to look at what’s going on in their own heart that makes it hard for them to hear, it sounds like.
Andrea: Yeah, there’s so much, right? There’s so much there, and I think that’s why it’s important for us to have, you know, conversations like this and conversations that are about people and what’s going on inside of them. The more that we can have those conversations, the more likely we can have conversations about policy and about politics that are actually going to do something, but as long as it’s just about that, no way. We’re not getting anywhere.
Rosanne Moore: So, do you have any words for those who do find themselves often in high conflict argument, you know, discussions. I mean, there are people who seem to spend a lot of time on the internet, or whatever, criticizing others. What would you say to someone who is in that place?
Andrea: I think that what you’re striving for, what you want, is you want your voice to matter. You want to be heard, and you want to have influence. If you’re doing that, you’re doing it because you’re trying to have some kind of influence, and I respect that. I get it. I think that’s important, and that your voice really does matter, and it should matter. The trouble lies in thinking about what the outcome is of what you’re saying. I think we all have to look at what are we really wanting out of this situation. Do I just want to feel better? Then I may as well just spew hate because that’s going to make me feel superior in the moment.
But if you want actual influence, if you want to actually see something change then you need to do the more complicated and hard work of figuring out who your audience is, what your mission is, what you’re willing to sacrifice for that, and then loving people more than you fear them so that you can come to the conversation caring about that other person. And come to that conversation in love instead of worrying about whether or not you’re right or wrong, and how superior you feel. As long as that is the goal, as long as you’re elevating yourself to feel superior, it’s going to be really hard for you to have the actual influence that I think that you really do want.
Rosanne Moore: What I’m hearing you say is to have real genuine influence, you have to lay down your lust for power – for power over, I should say. Not the power that comes from genuine strength, but the kind of power over that shuts down opposition instead of being able to do the hard work of actually influencing and persuading.
Andrea: Yes, that feeling inside where you just need to have that power to shut people down, I think that also is tied directly to that need to be right. Because there’s something really threatened in us when we’re not right when we’re found out that we’re wrong about something or that somebody else doesn’t agree with us on something, and we’re threatened at the core when that happens. And that’s why we exert more power to try to make it go away. We don’t like that feeling. But if we can sacrifice that, if we’re willing to sacrifice our need to be right, then we might have a shot at having a conversation where we get something accomplished.
Rosanne Moore That’s a great point, Andrea. Thank you so much. This has been a really rich podcast. I hope, listeners, that you’ve gotten a lot out of this. I know I have. It’s always a good reminder to me to be present in the conversations, not simply to discuss ideas but to remember there’s a real person in front of me that I need to take care of and love well in the midst of a hard conversation.
Andrea: That’s right, especially if you really want to have influence over them if you want to have influence on them and their opinions. Otherwise, go for it, just hate on people and make yourself feel better. But that’s not going to change the conversation. It’s not going to get you where you really want to go.
Rosanne Moore: Well, it goes beyond that, right? Because it’s not simply hating or not hating. Even if you’re not being hateful – if you’re trying to discuss an idea but you’re not taking care of the heart of the person in front of you – you could be right, you could be logical, you could be respectful, but they still may not hear any of that.
Andrea: Absolutely.
Rosanne Moore: Because something may be triggered in them that you need to take care of first, that may be a barrier first that you have to address before they can even receive what you’re saying in the spirit and what you’re trying to give it.
Andrea: Roseanne, that’s why you’re Communications Specialist because you’re really good at summarizing what I say, much more succinctly and powerfully so. But I thank you, thank you for giving me a chance to share these things. It was fun. It was fun to have this conversation with you with our listeners.
Rosanne Moore: It was fun. And if you enjoyed today and you want to benefit more from the wonderful services that Andrea offers to companies that have worked with us and working with human dynamics and within their company and building a culture and a climate in a business where people communicate well and serve each other well, get in touch with us at voiceofinfluence.net.