How to Create a Stigma- Free Workplace with Mettie Spiess

Episode 120

Mettie Spiess is a global workplace mental health expert who is a Nationally Certified Health Coach and the Founder of A World Without Suicide.

Twenty industries across seven countries have successfully utilized her process to proactively support employee mental well-being, reduce turnover, and increase team productivity. In fact, in 2016, the National Alliance on Mental Illness awarded Mettie the Education Advancement Award for her work to end the stigma associated with mental illness.

In this episode, Mettie discusses the devastating personal reasons behind why she started her company, the signs that your light is starting to dim, how she’s handled the complex emotions that come with being a suicide loss survivor, how to know when it’s time to seek the help of others and how to go about doing that, her advice for starting a conversation with someone in your life that might be struggling, why companies should open up mental health conversations even if they might be afraid of potential liability issues, why just opening the conversation within your company isn’t enough, how to find the balance between supporting yourself and supporting others, and more!

Mentioned in this episode:

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Mettie Spiess Voice of Influence Podcast Andrea Joy Wenburg

 

Transcript

Hey, hey! It’s Andrea, and welcome to the Voice of Influence podcast. Today, we have with us Mettie Spiess who is a global workplace mental health expert. She is a Nationally Certified Health Coach and the founder of A World Without Suicide. Twenty industries across seven countries have successfully utilized her process to proactively support employee mental well-being, reduce turnover, and increase team productivity. And in fact, in 2016, the National Alliance on Mental Illness awarded Mettie the Education Advancement Award for her work to end the stigma associated with mental illness.

Andrea: I’m really, really glad to have Mettie on the line with us today. Welcome to the Voice of Influence podcast, Mettie.

Mettie Spiess: Thank you, Andrea. I am thrilled to be here.

Andrea: So this is a big topic. This is a deep topic, one that is possibly triggering for some people. Can you set us up with kind of why you, in particular, have decided to tackle this with your company?

Mettie Spiess: Sure. Great question. So, why I started A World Without Suicide and really speaking globally on this topic is a very personal reason that aligned with my initial professional goals. But to give a brief overview, growing up, I absolutely idolized my two older brothers, Eddie and Ronnie. To paint a little bit of a picture, Ronnie was my rebellious, cool, older brother. Eddie was the life of the party, the comedian. And when I was ten, we lost Ronnie to suicide, and it just broke my heart. And suicidal grief is so unique, and especially at that age, there was lots of confusion and anger and just heartbreak.

But Ed and I were able to lean on each other, and as we got older, we got very close, and fast forward to 2014, Ed was a new dad. He had been working in the restaurant industry for several years. He just sort of fell into that industry working double shifts. He was on call 24/7, and his job really didn’t fulfill him, and he started having panic attacks. And little by little, that spark that he always had in him disappeared. And looking back now, I can vividly remember moments of noticing that light inside of him just simply burn out.

But it didn’t alarm me because at the time I was working full time for a large corporation in Corporate America, and I saw people all the time like Ed who were burning out, who were in the rat race, who were in jobs that they didn’t like or didn’t fulfill them. So, it just sort of seemed justifiable or “normal.” And Ed’s light burned out completely, and we lost him to suicide in 2014.

Andrea: Oh, I’m so sorry.

Mettie Spiess: Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate that, and you know, losing one brother was heartbreaking enough, but losing two to me was unacceptable, and that’s when I pivoted from broad corporate health promotion to focus on mental wellbeing and suicide prevention.

Andrea: Hmm, wow. Okay, so first of all, obviously this is so personal for you, and what a testament to, gosh, your love for your brothers, your tenacity to come back at this and tackle it instead of… I don’t know what instead of, but I’m grateful that you’re doing this work.

Mettie Spiess: Thank you. Thank you.

Andrea: When you think about your brother Eddie and the lights starting to dim, what kinds of things did you notice or do you encourage people to really look for in others whose light might be starting to dim or even themselves?

Mettie Spiess: Hmm, great question. So, being aware to changes in behavior, so whether it’s being exhausted – so having chronic sleep deprivation, things like appearance change, weight gain, or dramatic weight loss. If there’s somebody or if you personally are someone that’s usually well put together, but recently you just haven’t felt like you can get out of bed and put your face on and really go out there, or you’re having things like anxiety or is something moving past stress to really that panic mode or feeling like drowning. I think it’s important that we look in ourselves, and we look at those around us and not justify it as, “Oh well, everybody’s tired. Everybody works too much,” but really looking at it as, “Well, you don’t have to,” right? I mean, there’s a balance that can be achieved, but what is from normal stress to being a potential issue?

Andrea: Yes. Okay, so there’s probably people around us who are feeling that way, sometimes we might be feeling that way. And like you said, you’ve kind of saw the lights start to dim, if you will, again, with your brother, but you weren’t totally alarmed because you saw it as something kind of normal, which is so sad. How do you kind of grapple with the fact that this happened with you and your brothers? I mean, I’m asking this in order to encourage others that maybe have been in your position. How do you handle that kind of, I don’t know, the weight of knowing that it was your brother, you know?

Mettie Spiess: Being a suicide loss survivor, as I mentioned before, it’s so complex, and there’s often a lot of guilt. And I know I felt a lot of guilt of not being more proactive, not being educated on all of the warning signs to know that, wow, you know, there was more than one and how to start that conversation if I was concerned. So, a part of it was getting very educated in diving deep into how can I be aware to prevent this, moving forward, and teach others.

I really resonate with Christine Kane… said a very famous quote years ago of “Sometimes when you’re in a dark place, you think you’ve been buried, but you’ve actually been planted.” And I think that’s such a beautiful way to look at it, that regardless, even if it’s not a suicide loss, it’s a loss of a major relationship in any way, or it’s a loss of a job that some of the strongest voices and influence and movements have come from people’s struggle and loss. But that said, of course, having self-care and seeking support when we need it so we can influence the world in the way we were meant to.

Andrea: So how does one know when they need it, when they need support, and where do they go for support?

Mettie Spiess: So, obviously it, I think, varies by person. But if that stress going across the line of being chronic, or you’re having a hard time getting out of bed, or that stress is now moving into panic attack zone, leaning on people in your personal and professional life that you can count on for support. But if you feel like it’s in the mental illness – whether it’s depression, anxiety, any of that under the umbrella – talking to even your primary care physician and talking about what might be the next best step.

If it’s having suicidal thoughts, I recommend individuals reaching out immediately to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. There’s a hope text line available in the U.S. that not everyone knows about. And this is helpful because it immediately connects individuals to a certified counselor versus having a waitlist to see someone. And that is available by texting 741741. I believe it’s text the word CONNECT to 741741.

Andrea: Okay, so when you’re talking to somebody – you know, let’s bring this into a conversation into a relationship at work, at home – and there’s some sort of warning sign that kind of pops up, there is often times I’ve noticed just with my background and things that people often don’t want to go there with somebody that’s really struggling. They often don’t want to feel that pain, or they often want to make somebody feel better so that they feel better. And it’s not always possible to make everybody feel better, we all know that. But at the same time, we still want that. We still are trying to make other people feel better. How do you suggest that people approach a conversation or even find the courage within themselves to have that conversation with somebody who’s really struggling?

Mettie Spiess: You are right. Andrea, you nailed it. There is quite a bit of uncomfortableness around starting these types of conversations, particularly in the workplace. When I start to train managers in our training, I have had countless times managers tell me that they have major concerns about someone on their team, but they would rather say nothing than say the wrong thing and be held liable, you know, to cross the confidentiality line. I have a whole digital module and portion of our training that we talk about the specific do’s and don’ts for discussing in the workplace.

But if we’re talking about even a family relationship or a coworker relationship, it’s completely appropriate to just open up the conversation by saying, “Hey, you really haven’t quite been yourself lately. Are you okay?” Just opening it up. Now, the “are you okay” question can be ambiguous, and people might automatically say, just out of pure habit. “Oh, I’m fine. Yup, I’m okay, don’t worry about it. Everything’s good.”

But if in your gut you have a feeling that “No, they’re really not… of everything I’ve been seeing, they’re just really not okay.” Digging a little deeper and you could even say something like, let’s say if it’s in the workplace and you don’t want to pry, you could say, “Okay, well, just know I was worried, you haven’t seemed yourself. So just know if there’s ever anything you do want to talk about, I’m here for you.” Or “We have an employee assistance program. Their flyers are in the break room. I encourage you to reach out if you’re ever in need,” as an example.

Andrea: I think that idea of just opening up the conversation is in and of itself so important – so, so, so important – and yet again, it’s so scary for people to do, including, I’m guessing not just for individuals but also for companies. So you go in and actually, you kind of open up the conversation for companies. Why should a company want to go there when they know that it could open up a can of worms? You know, I’ve seen that sort of thing happened before, but yet it’s so… I know it’s so important, but how does a company really get the courage really to do this? How do they know it’s important for them?

Mettie Spiess: The main times companies reach out to us and realize that this is a costly… so not even talking about the importance of this for their people, but realizing that it’s a costly dollars and cents issue is when they see significant healthcare claims going up for substance abuse treatments, for mental health-related leave of absence. Unfortunately, several companies – last year was about 60% of our companies or our clients – reached out after an employee suicide; many had multiple. And we see so many companies out there have employee suicides on site.

I mean, if you Google it, you will be surprised how many major brands and small companies alike. This is occurring literally in the workplace. The other side of the coin is by not addressing it – by not teaching leaders and employees about stigma-free language, about appropriate responses to individuals who disclose substance abuse or mental health-related issues – if they say something that is a discrimination type response, that is also a costly issue. So, I think what’s interesting is that some companies view by not discussing it they’re protecting themselves when actually it’s the exact opposite.

Andrea: Hmm, wow. Yeah, that’s really, really interesting and important and terrifying, really, that it takes seeing how bad things are to really make a change, and yet that’s just most of the world. I mean, we all do that as individuals. We wait until there’s a crisis of our own before we’re ready to really grapple with the things that are hard to grapple with.

Mettie Spiess: So true. That is so true, as you mentioned, from a personal and from a business perspective.

Andrea: Right. Let’s see. So, when it comes to having these conversations and you realize that somebody is struggling, or you realize that you’ve got the struggle within your company, I’m assuming it’s programs like yours that can come in and address this, open up the conversation. How does this go from being sort of just one conversation or just you coming to speak to actually making a difference or a change throughout the organization?

Mettie Spiess: That’s such a great question because you’re right, topics that are this critical, it’s not a onetime event, right? There’s an ongoing conversation, ongoing support resources that are needed. So, opening up the conversation in a way that is best practice, but that also helps break the stigma, so it’s comfortable and you can remove those common fears that we talked about in our experience is very helpful for companies to open up that conversation.

But to have support available for employees to go to, whether that is through their employees’ assistance program, whether that’s promoting mental health-related or substance abuse related support, nonprofit groups within their organization. We have an eight module digital leadership course that has an employee track that talks about not only supporting personal mental wellbeing but supporting a coworker or family member in crisis, how to use stigma-free language in the workplace. We really covered the gamut to have ongoing development and support in this area.

Andrea: Yeah. Just to continue to think about it, to continue to have it in front of your people seems to be just a vital piece of it.

Mettie Spiess: Absolutely, absolutely.

Andrea: When it comes to individuals – and let’s go back to kind of the person who is wanting to be a support that might be struggling themselves but wanting to be a support to others – how do you balance those two things? I can imagine that you’ve been through your own dark times as well… I mean, we all have. How do you balance being a support to other people and taking care of yourself?

Mettie Spiess: Andrea, I’m sure you can agree with me, it’s a balancing act when you’re in any sort of caretaker role, or in an industry like healthcare or education where you’re consistently giving and supporting others. From what I have found, being very self-aware of knowing when you’re giving too much and backing up to make sure that you are constantly refueling your tank. Pastor Wayne Cordeiro, one of my favorite quotes that he says is that “The path to success and the path to a nervous breakdown is the same. The only difference is whether or not you take care of your wellbeing.” And I truly think that is the case.

So, whatever self-care and stress relief means to you, whether it’s exercise, whether it’s art, whether it’s talking to people that can help build you up and can empathize where you’re going through. There isn’t one set formula, but knowing that what you’re putting out, putting back into yourself as well, so you stay well.

Andrea: We’ve just hit so many really deep kinds of things. When it comes to influence and wanting to have an impact on other people, I think that these kinds of people tend to be, and we’re talking, you know, ethical influence, the people that listen to this podcast tend to be more empathetic. They tend to be perhaps sensitive where they are very aware of other people and what they need, or they care at least, at very minimum, even if it’s not part of their sort of DNA to be super empathetic, they care. And so they are able to kind of make that happen for themselves to really kind of take perspective and whatever.

For those kinds of people, I think it’s easy to get discouraged. It’s easy to feel like the ideal is what you’re striving for, and you never quite hit it, and you never will. That’s one of the very harsh realities of being an idealist. But how do you suggest people sort of grapple with that as a person who wants to have a voice of influence knowing that they’re never going to quite get there? You know, there’s always something that’s left to be had that didn’t quite make it. What kind of advice would you have for them?

Mettie Spiess: Well, Andrea, what you said about whether it’s a perfectionist or someone that is trying to absolutely change the world and they might not ever get to the place where they think is the best place of influence, they might not. So, sharing that, being realistic I think is helpful. But I think that… and I can empathize with that type of person, is that then we tend to downplay the impact and the influence we do make.

And it can be one supportive person in one conversation that can be the difference between a tragedy and triumph. And letting someone, as an example, who’s struggling know that they’re not alone and encouraging them to seek support can put them on a path to wellness and potentially saved their life. And that’s just one person, but what’s bigger than that? I mean, that impact and influence at the end of the day is incredible to have that potential of influencing and supporting someone’s life.

Our organization is a World Without Suicide. Do I hope at some point we can create a world that is free from suicide, of course. But I can’t let that goal in purpose override the day-to-day conversations or trainings that I’m facilitating because that is where that influence is at the time.

Andrea: Hmm. It’s sort of shooting for the stars but hitting the moon – we wouldn’t even hit the moon if we didn’t try.

Mettie Spiess: So true.

Andrea: Yeah, I think that that is super important for us to remember and to hold as almost sacred in our hearts that it’s okay to not have it turn out perfectly, that it is not going to be perfect. That your influence, your impact in the world is not going to be the ideal thing that you would want it to be, and yet strive for it, and yet go for it, and yet… you know, being able to grapple with that tension I think is one of the pieces of this calling of being a voice of influence.

Mettie Spiess: Without question, I completely agree with you. Progress, not perfection.

Andrea: All right. Mettie, if companies are wanting to have a program that would support mental health, I would highly recommend yours. Can you tell us about where they can find you?

Mettie Spiess: Yes, thank you. If you visit stigmafreeworkplace.com, you will find information on our certified best practice training. There’s also a resource in there called the Stigma-FREE Workplace Blueprint that organizations can download and get best practice strategies to support mental wellbeing to start the conversation about mental health safely in their organization. I’m on LinkedIn as well, and I love to highlight the companies that we’re working with who are really committed to supporting employee mental health as a health and safety priority. So looking there is a great place to go for inspiration as well.

Andrea: Mettie, thank you so much for being a voice of influence for the world. The circumstances through which you have begun your company and message are tragic, and yet you are finding a redemptive purpose in the middle of it. And I am grateful for that and for your courage to do so.

Mettie Spiess: Thank you so much, Andrea. I am a huge fan of your podcast and everything that you’re doing out there to influence the world. So, I appreciate being a part of this.

Andrea: Thank you so much.

Mettie Spiess: Thank you.

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