Liz Dederer is disrupting sales for good. As founder and CEO of Selling With Service and the creator of Sales School for Entrepreneurs, Liz and her team have helped clients increase close rates from zero percent to 80 percent in 30 days, and ended the year 50 percent over their plan and have turned around an underperforming sales team from under $300,000 to over $1.2 million in six months. In other words, this woman gets things done! Liz has been featured on the International Women and Money Summit and is currently on her second speaking tour on the Currency of Conversation, empowering women sales teams and business owners to close clients quickly.
In this episode, Liz explains what she means when she says, “How you do money is how you do everything,” the four currencies that impact our money conversations, the quick and easy way she can tell if her potential clients are a “hard or soft currency” person and how that changes her interaction with them, the difference between having a sales energy and a service energy, the true difference between an amateur and an expert and how to know when it’s time to own your expertise, and more!
Mentioned in this episode:
- Liz Dederer’s Website
- Sales School for Entrepreneurs
- Liz Dederer’s Resources for Entrepreneurs
- Email Bill Coletti | bcoletti@kith.co
- Fascinate Assessment
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Transcript
Hey, hey! It’s Andrea and welcome to the Voice of Influence podcast. I’m really thrilled to have Liz Dederer here today because she is distracting sales for good. As founder and CEO of Selling With Service and the creator of the Sales School for Entrepreneurs, Liz and her team have helped clients increase close rates from zero percent to 80 percent in 30 days, and end of the year 50 percent over their plan and have turned around an underperforming sales team from under $300,000 to over $1.2 million in six months. In other words, this woman gets things done. Liz has been featured on the International Women and Money Summit and is currently on her second speaking tour on the Currency of Conversation, empowering women sales teams and business owners to close clients quickly.
Andrea: Liz, it is great to have you here today with me on the Voice of Influence podcast.
Liz Dederer: Thank you. I’m so excited that we get to have this fun conversation together.
Andrea: I am too. Every conversation with you is fun.
Liz Dederer: Yay!
Andrea: It totally is. Yes, I’m thrilled to share you with our listeners. So, Liz, why don’t you kind of give us a little bit more context for what you do with Selling With Service?
Liz Dederer: The way I explained it to my 7-year-old daughter is that I help mommies make a lot of money.
Andrea: There you go.
Liz Dederer: That’s the simplest, mommies and daddies or nonparents, or grownups, right? So, Selling With Service is really just about helping people be normal in sales conversations and giving them the tools, the talk, and the tech to be able to use their voice in a more empowered way as the expert that they are in sales conversations by shifting their sales mindset and looking at sales for what it actually is, which is really healthy service-based conversation and process.
Andrea: Now that sounds really appealing.
Liz Dederer: Yeah.
Andrea: Yeah, yeah, it sounds really appealing. OK. We’re going to make sales normal, sound normally. I mean, in general, how do you do that?
Liz Dederer: Magic! It’s shifting your sales mindset. We look at things in Sales School for Entrepreneurs and in Selling With Service in general, we look at first, what is your relationship with money because how you do money is how you do everything. And to be honest, the reason and the point and the sales process or conversation when people start getting weird is around the money stuff, because we’ve never been taught to speak confidently or competently around about money. In fact, we’re like totally conditioned on the opposite, “Don’t talk about money.” “It’s rude to ask people how much they make.” “They can afford it. You can’t afford it.”
All of those things come up. So, we come right out of the gate and we use a proprietary assessment, the eight languages of money so that you understand what your money language is and we talk about the currency of conversation. So, we just come at it right out of the gate talking about money and the softer side of money. And then we look at what is sales, so let’s unpack it? What do you think it is versus what is it really?
You know, there’s a reason I named the company Selling With Service because it’s all about being in service and of service to other people. And then the results of a healthy relationship or understanding of your relationship with money, understanding and being able to identify it in others as well and having the tools, talk, and tech to be able to navigate a conversation. The healthy outcome of that is that you’re working with more people because you’re not weird in conversations.
Andrea: Oh man, I love it! Yeah, I mean, I had a really hard time with this and have made it over a pretty darn big hump in my own life and my own business on this. And so I am really excited about what you’re doing because I know that it changes everything. So, you said this, you said “How you do money is how you do everything.” What do you mean by that?
Liz Dederer: So, we look at your relationship with money, and money is one of the four currencies. And the four currencies, I use the acronym TEMP like temperature; it’s Time, Energy, Money, and People and how you operate with money shows up in the other categories of currency. If you’re really, really possibly stingy with money, we’ll just use these two kinds of _____ as an example. If you’re really, really stingy with money that’s likely going to show up in other areas of your life and your business and how you’re approaching conversations and the extent of information you’re willing to give away because you have a hold, a lack mentality on time, energy, money and people; a fear scarcity based.
Andrea: OK, so stingy with money could translate into stingy in your conversations and how much you’re willing to offer of yourself or be vulnerable and all those sorts of things.
Liz Dederer: Exactly. Yeah, so it can look like, and it’s not an absolute, right? But it can look like and it does look like and this is what we teach people how to listen and look for. It can start to show up in the sales process where they say, “Well, I already gave them a free sample.” “I already explained it to them.” “I already, you know, did this.” “They already have what they need.”
But sometimes people just need a little bit more information, and someone who is more on the fear scarcity side is not going to be as willing to maybe get on another phone call, you know, build the relationship a little bit more, give a little bit more energy and put a little bit more into the people bank and the relationship bank because they’re operating through the lens of fear and scarcity, which is not wrong. It’s not wrong.
In my presentations, I have this diagram. I’ve got it off the internet where it’s two people looking at the number six and one is saying six and one is saying nine. And neither is wrong, but it’s your perspective and it’s just about understanding others, you know. So, the other side of that is if someone is overly generous and overly nurturing and overly giving, me, all soft currency, I’m kind of boundary-less and limitless. And you know, I lose track of time with clients and if someone needs another conversation before they decide if sales was right for them, myself and my team, we’re all ready to jump in. And yeah, we have to keep track of the time because you know, we have other things going on but I’m not going to say “Nope, gotta go, your time’s up.” Like if someone needs more coaching, if they need more help or support, we’re very, very flexible and willing and giving because that’s how we are with all of our currencies.
So, two extremes, one is not right, one is not wrong, it just it’s important to notice because when you’re in a “sales” conversation, and I’m using air quotes with sales because any conversation where you know there’s a desired outcome or you want to move an initiative forward. Getting your kids to pick up their room is a sales conversation, right? Let’s just be honest.
Andrea: Totally.
Liz Dederer: You need to understand what’s most important in those conversations is understanding and speaking the language of the other person. So, when we recognize what our money language is, what our relationship with currency is then we’re going to know how that’s going to show up in conversations and where we might self-sabotage or etc. And we’ll also just be aware of it to hear it showing up in the conversation to say, “Oh, is this my language I’m speaking or is this theirs?”
Andrea: Hmm. How do you know?
Liz Dederer: So with the acronym TEMP, I try to make it really simple for people to listen. I used to teach, you know, and explain the eight languages of money so people could hear that. And I’m like, “Well, it’s too much. It’s too much, put a _____.” We cannot remember our own names at times. So, I try to make it really simple, just listen for the hard and the soft currency. Hard currency is time and money and soft currency is energy and people. So, if someone’s using filling words a lot like “This is gonna be so exciting, I can’t wait.” “This is gonna be great, really looking forward to playing.” Those are total soft currency person.
Energy people, if something fun is going on, if there’s people involved; they’ll want to be there, right? And if someone says, “Well, what time and what are we going to get out of it?” “What exactly is going on?” And more precision based language, time, money then they’re going to be a harder currency person and you’ll just want to speak in more detail with them. But if you start speaking in significant detail with a soft currency person, you’ve likely lost them. If you’re in the fun zone with a hard currency person, they’re likely not respecting you for being an expert and authority because you sound wishy-washy.
Andrea: Oh that’s so true.
Liz Dederer: Right?
Andrea: I see it in my own family. Some of us are one way, and some of us are another, yeah. So, do you have maybe like a couple things that you look for immediately to kind of gauge if somebody is really more of a hard currency or a soft currency kind of person?
Liz Dederer: Yeah, I mean, in our “sales conversations,” we call them service conversations once you go through the training. But if I say service conversations you’re going to be like, “What, is their washing machine broken? What’s going on?” So, in a sales calls, in a service conversations, you know, I’m talking to business owners, I’m talking to entrepreneurs, I’m talking to coaches, consultants and salespeople; so one of the questions we ask obviously is, you know, what are your numbers? What was your revenue over the past 12 months or what were your sales over the past 12 months? And I’ll hear right away if they’re hard or soft currency the way that they answer it.
Andrea: Sure.
Liz Dederer: So, if they, you know, come to the table and they have no clue about their numbers or they give me some really roundabout kind of, you know, dodgy answer, definitely it’s a soft currency person.
Andrea: Hmm.
Liz Dederer: Hard currency person, like I literally had this answer in a call and they said, “I’m not exactly sure what my numbers are.” So, I think soft currency right away. And then they continued, they said, “I haven’t updated my reports and we haven’t run the numbers for the business this week, but as of last week my numbers were dah, dah, dah, dah,” and x y z sense. And I’m like, “Holy crow, they weren’t confident in their numbers because they hadn’t been updated for that week, so they didn’t want to give me the numbers.” And I was like, “Wow, you’re really a hard currency.” “What’s going on?” That’s great. That’s good to know.
Andrea: Sure, sure. OK, I love that. I always love it when people have ways that they read people to know where they’re at because, like you said, any conversation where you’re attempting to get somebody to cooperate or to purchase something, it’s still a sales conversation. It’s some sort of its influence of some kind. And so, meeting people where they’re at is so vitally important, but yet it’s really hard to do. I love your hard versus soft currency model that you’re using, and it seems simple enough that people could really grasp onto that and really make something of that, you know, just listening to this conversation.
Liz Dederer: Yeah. I did it in a real estate investors’ conference I was keynoting and I had two gentlemen volunteer to do a role play. And the way that we worked the role play was just these guys hadn’t met. So, I said, “Just network in front of these thousands of people, please, #nopressure.”
Andrea: Wow!
Liz Dederer: So that’s it. They were just networking and it was great. I mean it, it was definitely a divinely guided conversation because it’s like you always take a risk when you do something like that, but it worked out really, really well.
So, one guy was an investor and the other guy was a lawyer and the lawyer was saying, “Oh, you know, I’ve got this client. He was looking to sell his house. He’s an artist. He’s lived in it for 30 years, but I think it was death or divorce or something, he has to get rid of it, but he’s done all these really intricate, cool things to the house but we do need to get it on the market, you know, sooner rather than later.” And then the investors said, “Do you know the value of the house and when is he looking to list it?” And you could instantly see the lawyer just completely deflated.
And the audience, it was interesting too, the women in the audience gasped because they were like, “No, you just killed it. You didn’t speak his language.” And the men in the audience like, “Doo, doo, doo, doo.” No idea of what’s going on. That was interesting. But this isn’t a man-woman thing and it was just a very interesting thing to notice. But what the women noticed was that the investor did not speak the lawyer’s language. One was very hard currency, one was very soft currency and all that needed to be done.
You don’t have to change who you are. You don’t have to completely change your language, you just have to validate and give them just a little sticky note that says “I hear you and this is how he could have done it.”
So, the lawyer was saying, you know, the artist and all this cool stuff, etc., etc. All that the investor needed to say was, “Wow, your client sounds really, really fascinating. Do you know the value of the house or when he wants to put it on the market?” That’s it, one bridge line.
Andrea: Brilliant. I love it. Alright, Liz, let’s talk service. How in the world is selling actually service?
Liz Dederer: Ha ha, great question. So, the answer, I mean, what are you doing when you’re selling, selling, selling, right? If you’re just like, “I’m in it for the kill, I’m in it for the money,” then you’re in sales, right? You’re in it for yourself. Sales energy is about yourself, “I need to sell this.” Service energy is about the other person. And to take it even more _____, sales energy is fear based and service energy is love and abundance based. We’re operating in the line of sales, you’re thinking about yourself, you’re thinking about fear, and you’re thinking about your numbers and there’s an element of fear and scarcity going on, “I need to make my goal.” “I don’t have enough in the bank,” or whatever it is. “I need to move more widgets.” I need to, you know, etc.
When you’re thinking through the lens of service, you’re not thinking about yourself. I tell my students all the time, lovingly, “Your business ain’t got nothing to do with you. It’s all about the other person.”
The purpose of a business is to create a customer. So, service is all about being available and helping the other person. It doesn’t mean that you can’t exchange hard currency. It doesn’t mean that money doesn’t get brought into the equation. It doesn’t mean that we’re all paupers on the street. It means that you’re thinking in terms of what is in the highest and best interest for all parties involved.
Andrea: Right?
Liz Dederer: That’s service. And you can’t give and give and give and at some point you’re going to have to say, “We need to set an official play date so I can really take this to the next level to help you.”
Andrea: Hmm. How do you know what that boundary line is? Maybe, it’s partly like you were talking about the assessment that you do and how people kind of fall someplace on this spectrum between sort of really soft and really hard currency. How does one determine when it’s time, like how much to give before they go ahead and ask for the sale?
Liz Dederer: So, in a service-based business where you’re selling a service, it comes down to really knowing and owning your zone of absolute brilliance, your zone of expertise, and how you do your work, right? You have to be really, really clear on your deliverable. And the reason I say that is because there are things that you can do to get a client ready to become a really good client. And that’s the service part of it.
We adopt the mindset; we teach in Sales School for Entrepreneurs, we adopt the mindset early and often that they’re already a client. And the goal is you want to make sure that they’re really great client by the time they actually become a client, so whatever you’ve got to do to help them get to that point. And then there is a point where you say, “This is what we do in Sales School.” “This is what we do in a strategic planning day when we map out your five points to profit.” So, you have a strong grasp on who you’re serving and what that looks like and how you’re priced, etc. That happens in this container.
So, if you’re ready for that, it sounds like you’re ready for that, we can definitely talk about that but that is the next step in me being able to be of service to you is you got to come play in Sales School or you need to set up, you know, a strategic planning day.
I struggle with the word boundaries because I’m like all soft currency, like water on concrete who just go everywhere. So, I love the word, one of my mentors, over the years, gave me this word to use instead, which is container.
Andrea: I really like that.
Liz Dederer: Yeah, and Sales School is my container where I get to just fire hose and just love on and drip on the students and give them everything. So, it’s a really healthy, happy container space for me to play in and I know what goes on in there and I know what I can give to people on the outside. And I also know with anybody there is going to be a point where I can’t give them any more. They have to come. You know, I can only splash you with water so much outside the pool, at some point you’re going to have to just jump in.
Andrea: Hmm, another good analogy. OK, so there are people out there like you, like me who sort of come from this mindset of service, and this is maybe, you know, prior to getting through all. I guess, I’m thinking about on the front end before they have really figured out what their container is and all that. They want to help. They see lots of opportunities to offer people advice, their expertise and all that sort of thing. And yet, they maybe start to feel resentment because they’re thinking to themselves, I could have charged for that.
What do you do to help somebody see that, you know, to help somebody get over their resentment toward the people that they actually really do want to serve? I remember there being such a contradiction that just really robbed with me and I wasn’t sure how to handle that. What would you tell me back, I don’t know, a couple of years ago before I started to kind of figure that out?
Liz Dederer: Well, that’s how my company was born is because I was doing exactly that. I was giving it all away. I actually have a video on my website, sellingwithservice.com, on the entrepreneurs’ page where I talk about how I was the busiest brokest entrepreneur because I was having great conversations and I was giving it all away and people were like, “Oh my God, you’re amazing!” And I’m like, “Gee, thanks!” And then they’d leave and I’m like, “But uh, uh, but uh, I got to eat.”
Andrea: Yeah.
Liz Dederer: So, that’s how all of my systems and processes were born organically is because I had to protect myself from myself from giving it all away, because what you’re actually doing is a disservice to the other person. You’re giving them a Band-Aid solution for a bleed and you haven’t fully identified why they’re bleeding.
Andrea: Yes, so good.
Liz Dederer: Yeah, and you know, I had to create ways to protect myself from myself because I knew, you know, it felt really good to do the energy exchange and to get the validation and they’re like, “You’re really smart.” And I’m like, “Oh my God, thank you.” Because I needed that in my life at the time, so that was my dominant currency is that I needed to be fed validation and energy and it’s not wrong.
It really built me in a lot of ways and I know a lot of other people go through this too, like “Who am I?” “What am I doing?” “Am I really good at this thing,” and all of that. So, the validation, there is nothing wrong and you build your validation bank and at some point you need to start building the money bank. And that’s where it’s just kind of having a lens to say, “Well, let me pull back for a minute.”
I’ll suggest people to consider that the expert asks questions, the amateur answers. So, when you’re having these conversations, you’re going to get to points over time having the same conversations with different people where you’re going to say, I need to ask more questions to understand what’s going on rather than just jump to the gun with a solution.
Andrea: Why do you suppose that’s the case? Why do you suppose the amateur jumps to answering questions? It’s so true, like I totally see it. Why is that?
Liz Dederer: Validation? We want to be proven that we’re right. We don’t know that we are yet, so we’re looking to build that evidence base, “Am I really good at this? Can I really do this? Can I really solve this problem? Is my salad any good?” Whatever it is.
Andrea: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.
Liz Dederer: It’s feeding the soft currency side of things, building the relationships, having the conversations with people, getting the energy exchange, getting information in exchange for validation in return. You know, it’s working for validation, not cash. And then there does come a point where I’m like, “I’ve had this conversation before, I know how this is going to end and I also know I can help them.”
Andrea: Yeah. I think like you were talking about the Band-Aid on and that doesn’t really stop the bleeding. I think that’s something that I had to see that for myself in order to get over that hump because when I realized that, when I was helping people for free or for very, very little money and giving a lot of way, I realized that they weren’t taking it as seriously. They weren’t valuing it and truly doing something with it as much as people started to do once I started actually, you know, charging money.
Liz Dederer: Well, I’ll offer the lens that they were valuing it as much as you were.
Andrea: Yeah, absolutely.
Liz Dederer: That’s in the amateur energy and it’s not bad. We all have to start somewhere. No one in social media with a thousand followers, you start with nobody. Nobody starts in business with all these customers, you start with nobody. Amateur is not a negative. It just alliterative to answers, which is why I use that word because the amateur answers, the experts ask questions, you know.
Andrea: Yeah.
Liz Dederer: We don’t necessarily understand and appreciate the importance of the energy exchange of validation because it’s non quantifiable. It’s not visible and there’s not like an actual calculation for it, so we don’t see it. And we are in business for money, right? We all have to eat. It’s the resource, the tool, the evidence that we require in our modern day society.
But with the energy exchange, it’s still valuable. It’s so necessary so that when that time comes and you’re like, dress rehearsal is over, you’re totally standing as a confident and authoritative expert versus an empty suit.
Andrea: Yes. I really, really appreciate that distinction and I wonder if that, you know, sense of resentment when it starts to come up, if that might be an indication that it’s time to flip.
Liz Dederer: Yes, yes. That’s a great way to look at it. That’s definitely the moment where you can start to step into why am I not owning my expertise or my favorite question is what if? What if I did that conversation differently? What if I showed up more in my expert zone versus amateur zone? What if I started referring to myself as an expert?
Andrea: So good.
Liz Dederer: Who’s going to challenge you on that, like who’s going to challenge you on the fact that you’re an expert?
Andrea: It’s such a hard thing to get over though. I mean, it really is, and I think you’re absolutely right that the amateur really does need to have that validation, but you’re right. There comes a point when it’s just, “Maybe, I really need to do this. Maybe this really is my thing.”
Liz Dederer: Uh-hmm. I can stand in absolute confidence and go to toe-to-toe with anyone that I am hands down the best at sales. I am an expert at sales for everyone, absolutely not. I am the best at sales for the people I invested sales for. That’s how you stand and own your expert energy. You’re not _____ best across the world who ever lived ever. That’s ego, right? Expertise says I’m the best at what I specifically do for those that I specifically do it for. I am an expert in that.
Andrea: OK, so when you’re doing the Sales School for Entrepreneurs, are you helping people who are amateurs or people who are experts or people who are trying to get over that hump? How did the people know whether or not they belong in that program?
Liz Dederer: I’m helping everyone across the board. I’ve got experts in there who just aren’t necessarily using their voice. They aren’t necessarily speaking their value yet. They’re still in sales energy, fear energy because they haven’t been taught or given permission that it’s OK to serve.
Teaching amateurs for sure, who just had a great conversation with a woman yesterday who’s going to join our conversation creation challenge, which is a free Facebook group to help drum up more appointments on your calendar. And she’s at a really stage of infancy in her business, which is so exciting and she’s just so dripping and ready to learn that I was like, “Please come into this container, we’ll get your calendar booked, we’ll bump up your revenue and then when you’re ready you come play in Sales School.”
And I was like, “I don’t wanna lose you because you’re an amateur and it comes across and you’ve got so much potential.”
Andrea: Hmm, cool.
Liz Dederer: Well, what we don’t work with are people who are just in it for sales, just in it for the money, just in it for kill, don’t have integrity, are not good at what they do, that doesn’t work. The best people that we work with are those that really, really want to do good work in the world. They want to help other people. We can help them. They’re great at what they do. They want to be even better at what they do. And they’re spending so much time getting better at what they do that they’re not spending any time doing it with clients or having conversations about it. They’re just geeking out in their zone. Those are the people I want to help because they’re really mad passionate about what they do. That to me is sexy as hell.
Andrea: Alright, so the Sales School for Entrepreneurs is it like a program with a certain end date or what is the basic structure of it?
Liz Dederer: So, we do six weeks kind of cohorts. We’ve got six week cohorts that run where it’s live training. And we’re in the pilot mode. It’ll launch officially in mid 2020. So, right now, it’s the six week cohorts and then we have teaching Tuesdays and follow-up Fridays.
To just kind of put this out there, overtime, it will be, you know, your sales don’t go away. So, I don’t believe your training should either, so we will build in an extended membership component to it and it will likely look like some sort of lifetime membership. I’m still working out the details, but I’m just so crazy passionate about this and the students who are in are getting great results. But it’s, “We’re gonna get in, we’re going to retrain your brain on how you think about sales, how you have the conversation.” “You’re gonna get the scripts, the mindset, the words.” “It’s all in this container and then I’m gonna support you on our follow-up Fridays,” which are kind of the students have been calling them, you know, office hours, just kind of open coaching calls where playing your sales questions to the call. And I just coach you right on the spot.
And I’ve literally had a student bring an in process sales situation to the table. We repositioned her thinking around it and this was on a Friday, and by Tuesday she had doubled her rate with this client who was already in process and she closed it and it was done from Friday to Tuesday.
Andrea: Awesome! So, listener, if you’re wanting to get results like that, if you are thinking to yourself, Liz, sounds amazing, I would really like to work with her then follow the next step. Liz, what’s the next step?
Liz Dederer: The next step is go to a saleschoolforentrepreneurs.com and we have a waitlist in between sessions and that will trigger our team to reach out to you and have an actual conversation with a real person to see what’s going on, where are you in business, how can we meet you where you are, and support you the best. It might look like the conversation creation challenge. It might be some of our other free resources that we keep behind the scenes to get you going. It might look like jumping in early to the next, you know, cohort, but that’s kicking off.
But we’re just so mad passionate about helping people make more money because I know what it’s like to be the really busy broke entrepreneur and it’s painful, especially when you’re really good at something. And I just don’t want people to feel like that.
Andrea: Hmm. And Liz, if you had one thing that you could leave the audience with, the listener with, what sort of tip or a piece of advice would you have for somebody who really does want to have a voice of influence?
Liz Dederer: I would say to them, again the expert asks questions and the amateur answers and a voice of influence does not have to look like complete sentences. You can be crazy impactful by getting someone to think differently and that’s through the process of asking more questions and you can completely demonstrate your authority, expertise, genius influence by shifting the way someone’s thinking through really expert, intelligent questions.
Andrea: Hmm, so good. Alright, thank you so much, Liz, for joining us on the Voice of Influence podcast and sharing your voice of influence. And listener if you have interest and any of this at all, please come to the voiceofinfluence.net. We’re going to have the show notes available for you there with links to what Liz said and talked about, or go directly to her Sales School for Entrepreneurs, is that right?
Liz Dederer: Yep, saleschoolforenterpreneur.com
Andrea: Either one is just fine. So, I know that this conversation is going to make a real difference in some people’s lives. And so thank you so much, Liz.
Liz Dederer: I’m so excited. Thank you for having me!